On this edition of Starfish Sessions, Tim Farr sat down with Stephen White, a former Chief Executive within Housing and the Social Sector who currently serves on the Board for several organisations. Stephen discusses the impact a very serious injury had on him at the age of 19, the role of employers with their staff, his mindset to work and how he keeps himself active in his spare time.
Please do introduce yourself, who you are, recent career history and organisations you’ve worked with recently?
My name is Steve White, I’ve been an interim manager for over 30 years and spent most of my career working in housing associations and non-profit organisations in a variety of senior leadership roles. I’m currently in a transitionary period moving away from interim management towards a full focus on non-executive work.
Can you tell us a bit more about the work you’re doing currently?
I’m working with a few organisations across housing and the third sector. I’m the chair of Moat, a large housing association, I’m a board member of another housing and care provider in Suffolk, Orwell Housing Association and I’m the vice chair of a military charity called Blesma (British Limbless Ex-Servicemen’s Association), a charity dedicated to soldiers who have lost limbs whilst serving and helping them come to terms with living a fulfilling life despite their injuries.
I’m very careful with my time and I choose to dedicate it to supporting organisations which are personal to me and close to my heart. I still remember growing up in dreadful temporary accommodation in Bethnal Green, so I really understand the impact housing has on people. I also served in the military which led to the loss of my leg in a training incident in the 1980s.
Can you tell us a bit more about that, how long ago and the impact it had on your life and career?
I was injured at the age of 19 while serving in an army regiment. I suffered very serious leg and knee injuries, leading to over 30 surgeries to try and salvage my leg but ultimately it had to be removed. I lost 3 stone overnight, a much better weight loss plan than Weight Watchers!
I had to find a life outside of the military and I was very lucky to get a job in the city, someone took me under their wing leading to the start of my career in business.
How did you find the transition into the professional working world from the military?
Once you’re out of the military, you’re out. There’s very little support provided which remains true to this day. You also don’t develop many life skills in the military and there are plenty of men and women who are injured on duty so cannot remain in the military and they lose their friends, job and network. You are thrown into the outside world without much support and that’s the position I found myself in back in the 80s. It was a difficult economic climate in the UK back then, I was desperate for work and had just left the military with a leg injury, I was really fortunate someone took a chance on me.
How did you come to terms with your disability and not let it become a barrier to you?
I’ll start by saying that losing your leg is not something I would recommend to anyone as a life experience. What it did afford me was an opportunity to build a degree of resilience and look at life in a different way. Technology is incredible these days but when I lost my leg I was issued with a crude mechanical piece of kit – I fell over constantly.
I was actually working as an interim when my leg was removed and 6 weeks later I was back working again. I remember being in a hotel room on crutches, hopping to the wardrobe, hopping back to the bed to pick up all my things so you certainly learn a set of new life skills which I view as a positive.
Do you view yourself as disabled? Do you feel the need the raise it during an interview, particularly now so many interviews can be done from home?
I’ve never declared that I have a disability unless I’m specifically asked, I’ve never volunteered this information because I don’t really see myself as disabled and I’ve never felt the need to mention it during an interview.
Do you think employers are doing enough to support people with disabilities?
Most organisations these days do now try to do what they can and welcome people with impediments, I’ve certainly seen this improve over the years and I genuinely believe the world has moved in a positive direction with this. Having said that, disability is very personal. There will be people with similar injuries to me but will have very different life experiences and different needs so there’s really no one-size-fits-all model.
As a former CEX yourself, what advice would you give to employers to manage the individual needs of people as part of a process?
To not make any presumptions about people. It’s reasonable to ask someone if they need assistance but don’t presume because I’m an amputee that I need x or y. I tend to be quite flippant and light-hearted about it and I often make a joke about it to break the ice, but for other people it might be different. It can take a while to come to terms with your disability, both physically and emotionally.
You’ve worked in so many different sectors – third sector, public sector, higher education and private sector. How did you manage this, any advice you’d give to someone looking to move into other sectors themselves?
I’ve always focused on results, and I can honestly say that I’ve had more good results than bad results so people have always kept close to me. I’ve found on each of my assignments, irrespective of the sector, the issues were usually the same – a lack of clear strategy, a lack of leadership or a lack of communication. If I could get those three things right, performance issues would usually resolve themselves and results would follow.
I’ve been tapped on the shoulder quite a few times because former colleagues I’ve worked with have formed a positive view of me, know what I can do and deliver and turned to me when needed. I’ve never been an active networker myself but I certainly recognise the importance of having a strong network to facilitate moving to different sectors or into other roles.
Did you find the transition from executive to non-executive a challenge?
Interim management is incredibly stimulating and intellectually challenging, but you do pay a price staying away from home in hotels which I have done all over the world throughout my career. Moving away from this towards advisory and non-executive work hasn’t been a cliff edge for me because I started developing my portfolio over time, so it all blended together which was a conscious choice for me.
What advice would you give to someone thinking about moving into non-executive work themselves?
The advice I’d give here would be the same advice I’d give someone moving from permanent to interim work. You need to be comfortable with the uncomfortable, you go into new organisations regularly, there are different cultures, management structures and ways of working and you need to adapt to these different environments.
In the non-exec world specifically, don’t mark your own homework. Interims tend to be solutions focused and non-exec work is about governance, it’s not about imposing your views on the solution. You need to understand what good governance means – challenging, scrutinising and supporting executive teams relative to whatever their challenges might be without imposing your view of the world.
What advice would you give to your younger self?
Wind my neck in a bit. I was a gobby young teenager. Always be curious too.
Tell us about what you’re doing in your spare time right now?
I’m a really keen swimmer and I’ll be swimming the English Channel for the second time this September with 3 other members from Blesma. We completed the swim in 12 hours 14 minutes the first time and we really want to beat that time this year!
Starfish Search were delighted to once again partner with PPMA and City CV to deliver our latest webinar – Redundancy Resilience for HR Professionals. This webinar focused on those tough talks, the best ways to handle the conversation around redundancy and the importance of putting people at the heart of it.
It’s an uncomfortable topic for so many of us and almost certainly the area of any manager’s job they enjoy the least, with participants highlighting feelings of anxiety, uncomfortableness and even mistrust from other employees.
City CV has carried out some private research and some fascinating statistics were shared which highlights how underequipped many of us are. Their studies indicate that 45% of HR professionals enter HR via non-HR career paths, and 82% of HR professionals have had no training on how to handle redundancy conversations. 82% of HR professionals with no formal training are expected to deliver messages that can change someone’s life and deliver it in a way that is both empathetic but also clear, concise and to the point.
It’s natural to think about the impact redundancy will have on the person on the other end of the conversation, the one whose life is about to change, and members shared their experience of these conversations, the most common emotions they faced were anger, disbelief, or outrage. Just as important in this dynamic is the person whose role it is to deliver this message – the HR professional, and members shared how it made them feel. They shared feelings of sadness, difficulty in processing their own emotions and some felt the organisation hadn’t equipped them fully to explain why this decision had been made. We discussed some practical tips for HR professionals to consider before, during and after the process to make it go as smoothly as possible, centred around preparation, controlling the conversation with clarity of message and time for reflection and to unwind afterwards.
Local government and the wider public sector is becoming increasingly aware of the importance of a strong employer brand when attracting and retaining talent, particularly as we face a national skills shortage in certain areas and challenges in recruiting to senior roles. It’s so important to remember the role that outplacement support plays in this, it shows your organisation will look after it’s people from beginning to end. A robust outplacement strategy can make or break your employer brand.
At Starfish Search we’re proud to support so many people on their employment journeys, if you’d like to connect with us to discuss how we might help you we’d love to hear from you.
This webinar is available for a limited time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaGYChig0_I and we’re delighted to be teaming up with PPMA and City CV for our next webinar in October 2024 focusing on imposter syndrome in the workplace. Please follow us for all the latest news and events https://www.linkedin.com/company/starfish-search
It isn’t always easy to perform your best at interviews and so many of us can leave the experience feeling frustrated and slightly demotivated.
Join us to hear more from a range of industry experts who have coached clients from all sectors. This webinar will give you the time and space to review and refresh your own techniques and hear what works.
Find out how to prepare for those tricky questions and navigate those difficult moments enabling you
to approach your next interview with confidence.
Date: 20th June 2024
Time: 12:30 pm
Register: https://tinyurl.com/starfish-may
** New podcast series hosted by Starfish Search **
Look out for the first of our series of podcasts looking at our changing times in a year of fluctuation. Our podcasters will be debating different issues relating to change, social impact and public policy over the coming weeks. Tune in to hear some rich conversation and wise discussion from our panels of experts. The first in this series looks at our changing workforce, opportunity and inclusion, social mobility and how employers and managers could adapt.
For our first podcast we are delighted to welcome:
James Kirkup
Over 20 years in high-profile Westminster roles including Political Editor of the Daily Telegraph and Director of the Social Market Foundation. Extensive experience of thought leadership and advocacy work, with a particular focus on the relationship between business, politics and public policy. Continues to contribute regularly to national media outlets as a columnist at the Times and Spectator.
Jason Arthur
Jason is CEO of Mission 44, the foundation set up by Sir Lewis Hamilton. After starting his career as a teacher in East London, he has held leadership roles in the non-profit sector, including at Teach First, the #iwill campaign and Youth Futures Foundation. Jason also served as a senior local councillor in London. He holds a BA in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from the University of Oxford and a Masters in Education from the University of Cambridge.
Anthony Painter
Anthony is Director of Policy and Communications at the Chartered Management Institute. Previously he was Chief Research & Impact Officer at the RSA, leading their social change remit with his work on policy and social innovation awarded a Think Tank of the Year Award by Prospect Magazine. Among other roles he was previously the Vice Chair of Governors of Hackney Community College.
#watchthispace for more information.
On this edition of Starfish Sessions, Ben Manojlovic sat down with Maggie Kufeldt, a highly experienced leader in adult social care and housing and former head of paid service to reflect on her career. Maggie discusses in detail how she copes with the demands of challenging interim assignments and coping with the unexpected while on assignment.
Please do introduce yourself, who you are, recent career history?
I’m Maggie Kufeldt, I’ve worked in health and social care within local government for the last 30+ years, 25 of which were spent in Greater Manchester. My most recent permanent post was with Oldham Council as Executive Director for Health and Wellbeing. I left in 2018 to pursue a career as an interim leader. As an interim I’ve worked in some fabulous places including London Borough of Islington, London Borough of Camden, Royal Hospital Chelsea, Department of Health and Social Care during COVID, Liverpool City Council and Salford City Council.
Each of my assignments have been immensely varied and challenging and I’ve had the opportunity to test myself in different settings. These roles have given me so much confidence in myself and my abilities. I’ve met and worked with many different people – Chief Executives, Army Generals and Ministers of State. I have felt enormously privileged to do so and I hope I’ve added value to each place I’ve worked.
Can you tell us a bit more about the work you’re doing currently?
I’ve just finished a 15 month assignment with Salford City Council as Interim Executive Director for Adults and Health Partnerships, leading Adults Social Care, Housing, Welfare and Public Health Services. The role involved leading the development of a new directorate and working with the teams on developing and improving our services. I’m delighted to be staying on in Salford as Director of Housing Transformation for a further 6 months.
It’s unusual for me to stay so long in one place but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my time in Salford. Salford is a city close to my heart and lots of my relatives live in the City and it’s been great to have the opportunity to work with Tom Stannard again and with the members in Salford who have great vision and ambition. As an interim you don’t always get to see the results of the work you start so it’s been fantastic to see this playing out now.
What led you to choose a career in social work?
I had a place to study English Literature at University of Liverpool but decided this was too far from home (even though I only lived on Manchester). I took a year off and my mum told me I had to work, by coincidence my sister’s friend had recently opened a care home and I went to work there at 19 years old. That was my first job in social care and from the moment I stepped through the door I absolutely loved it. It was a powerful experience for me and has led to a long career in social care, local government and the wider public sector.
In a few of your interim assignments you’ve been asked to stay on in a different capacity, how has that come about?
I’d say it’s a mix of luck, attitude and approach. I always take an active interest in the whole organisation, I have an open approach to my roles too and identify opportunities and improvements to support the whole organisation, not just in “my” service area. I build good relationships with everyone, not just those in my team. I like to get involved in corporate life and have a role in the corporate team and I think that’s led to me being asked to stay on in other areas which is something I’ve really enjoyed doing. I’d never really done housing before I became an interim and I’ve led on it in 3 different councils now! Don’t lose sight of why you were brought into the organisation in the first place though, there is a balance to this.
What led to your decision to become an interim manager?
I had only ever worked and lived in Greater Manchester and I wanted to test myself in a place where not everyone knew me and the working environment was less familiar. Looking back, I was probably in a bit of a rut and the idea of working away really excited me. It was a managed risk to see if I could work in a different environment and it’s paid off for me. I’ve expanded my network enormously, have had amazing opportunities and have learnt a vast amount and that’s something I really value.
What advice would you give to someone who’s considering that move themselves?
Speak to as many people and have as many conversations as you can. Talk to good recruitment specialists about your area of work and the types of opportunities that might be available for you. Talk to other interims about their experiences and the reality of it. Talk to other organisations in your area and talk to your existing network.
You also really need to think about the context of how you’d like to work, are you comfortable working and staying away from home? Are you comfortable without a stable income? Are you comfortable with time off between contracts? Make sure you go in with a full understanding of it.
You really need to consider the impact it has on your finances too. Staying away from home can be expensive, you don’t get paid while you’re on holiday and it’s important to plan for times when you’re not working or unable to work and that’s something I’ve had first-hand experience with.
Can you tell us a bit more about that?
I remember it so well. It started in January 2020, I went out for a run, came home to shower and found a lump in my right breast. At the time I was on an interim assignment with London Borough of Camden, I rang them straight away and let them know I wouldn’t be in work that week. After some tests with my GP I was diagnosed with breast cancer, it completely floored me. My treatment happened through Covid and lockdown which meant I had to shield throughout.
Camden were incredibly supportive, the Chief Executive Jenny Rowlands and Executive Director Martin Pratt both agreed that I would continue to work there and take time off around my treatment as needed. I was absolutely terrified I’d lose my assignment which was so important to me and for my mental health, I absolutely wanted to carry on working but I understood the organisation had their own needs and demands as well. I was really fortunate Camden were so flexible with me and I can’t tell you how supported I felt throughout this, even as an interim. I’ll always be grateful to Jenny and Martin for the compassion they showed me during such a difficult moment in my life.
Later on that year whilst still having treatment I went on to work for DHSC leading the Covid response in the West Midlands. It was tough and challenging but again the right thing for me as I like to be busy and feel like I’m making a difference. Clive Wright was another great support in this role.
This is my personal experience, but I completely recognise this will vary greatly from person to person – there’s no one size fits all approach. I do believe it’s important to be open and honest with your employers, manage their expectations about what time and energy you can commit. This applies to a health issue like I had but it could also be maternity leave, a bereavement or something else, I’ve learned that most people are supportive and will want to help you.
I spoke about finances before but it’s worth reiterating. As a permanent member of staff you’ll have access to benefits, sick leave and the support an organisation will provide and as an interim you don’t. Make sure you prepare for the difficult times while you’re working, set money aside and consider critical illness cover too.
Is there anything more agencies or employees could be doing to support interim managers facing their own health struggles?
For recruitment companies I’d say interim care is the most important thing. Stay in touch with people during the good times and the bad times, while they’re on assignment or between assignments. You want to feel as though that business has your back and there’s something really powerful about staying in touch.
My advice to employers would be you won’t get the most out of interims if you think of them and refer to them as “the interim”. Create an environment where interims can thrive, be included and feel part of the set up and team dynamic. You have a responsibility to them to, this works both ways. You may not be able to give them the same benefits as your permanent members of staff but you can afford them the same courtesy.
What’s been your career highlight?
I’d have to say my interim role at Royal Hospital Chelsea. Living and working in an esteemed national organisation that allowed me to work alongside the Chelsea pensioners daily had a real impact on me, it was fulfilling and amazingly good fun. It gave me an understanding of army life and military culture which I knew nothing about. You never stop learning as an interim!
At Starfish Search we change the world through Human Talent. Our Masterclass programme for 2024 is an opportunity for us to share our market insight, professional experience, and real time guidance on topics of current interest to our clients and also candidates seeking the next move in their executive and portfolio career.
Our Masterclass programme is delivered in partnership with City CV, a client-focused business that empowers job seekers and helps companies to protect their most important resource – their people.
17th May 12noon – Leading through tough Talks: Redundancy Resilience for HR Professionals
Held in partnership with PPMA, this webinar explores the nuanced dynamics of delivering tough news while preserving your wellbeing. Discover actionable insights and proven strategies to confidently lead through difficult conversations, cultivating empathy and trust within your team and organisation.
Link to follow
20th June 12:30 – Incredible Interviews
Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV this webinar looks at how your interview technique can benefit from a review and refresh. Building on interview tips and strategies from industry experts who have coached clients at all levels, from a range of sectors, learn more about how to prepare effectively for those tricky questions and approach your next interview with confidence.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_avTzenBgQCiyisIH54zQVg#/registration
(PPMA) 4th October 12noon – Embrace your Imposter
Held in partnership with PPMA this inspiring session addresses all forms of Imposter Syndrome. Its not just about self-doubt.Imposter syndrome can affect anyone of any gender, at any age and stage of their careers. It’s also been identified as a key symptom during perimenopause.
You’ll leave this inspiring session with an understanding of your own imposter, what type of imposter you are, and a toolkit to help you love your imposter as a friend not a foe.
Link to follow
17th October 1pm – Menopause for Leaders: Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV
According to the Guardian “almost a million women in the UK have left their jobs because of menopausal symptoms”. Yet, women aged 40-55 are often at the peak of their careers and have so much value, experience, and knowledge to give. It’s time that more companies put support structures in place for women and create a culture where everyone feels comfortable talking about the menopause.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_PWHxKBr5RoGgJonEEZTNlw
10th December 1pm – Elevate your NED LinkedIn: Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV
With over 1 billion users in 200 countries, LinkedIn is the #1 social media site for hiring professionals. An incredible 97% of head-hunters use LinkedIn as their primary candidate source, even more so for senior hires. However you may feel about social media, you cannot afford to neglect your LinkedIn profile.
Making it on to the shortlist for a top Non-Executive Director (NED) role is a demanding process. Your LinkedIn profile, along with your CV, will be one of the make-or-break components. In this Masterclass we will show you how to use your LinkedIn profile to refine your non-executive brand, elevate your gravitas, move up the rankings, prove your ROI, showcase your expertise, and expand your network in a competitive market.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_DM5J5tIGRveNRwX_ksun9w
Delivering difficult news, like redundancies, is an inevitable part of the HR professional’s role. That’s why it’s crucial to empower HR leaders with the resilience and confidence required to navigate these challenging discussions with compassion and effectiveness.
Led by careers expert Victoria McLean, Founder & CEO of Hanover | City CV, you’ll explore the nuanced dynamics of delivering tough news while preserving your wellbeing. Discover actionable insights and proven strategies to confidently lead through difficult conversations, cultivating empathy and trust within your team and organisation.
During this interactive workshop, we’ll cover:
Understanding the psychological impact of delivering difficult news
Recognising and maintaining healthy boundaries in the workplace
Practical techniques for effective communication and empathy
Strategies for self-care and resilience amidst challenging situations
Walk away from this session with the tools and confidence to navigate tough talks with resilience and compassion, ensuring the well-being of both yourself and your team.
Register here – https://tinyurl.com/starfishmay