Starfish Search were delighted to once again partner with PPMA and City CV to deliver our latest webinar – Redundancy Resilience for HR Professionals. This webinar focused on those tough talks, the best ways to handle the conversation around redundancy and the importance of putting people at the heart of it.
It’s an uncomfortable topic for so many of us and almost certainly the area of any manager’s job they enjoy the least, with participants highlighting feelings of anxiety, uncomfortableness and even mistrust from other employees.
City CV has carried out some private research and some fascinating statistics were shared which highlights how underequipped many of us are. Their studies indicate that 45% of HR professionals enter HR via non-HR career paths, and 82% of HR professionals have had no training on how to handle redundancy conversations. 82% of HR professionals with no formal training are expected to deliver messages that can change someone’s life and deliver it in a way that is both empathetic but also clear, concise and to the point.
It’s natural to think about the impact redundancy will have on the person on the other end of the conversation, the one whose life is about to change, and members shared their experience of these conversations, the most common emotions they faced were anger, disbelief, or outrage. Just as important in this dynamic is the person whose role it is to deliver this message – the HR professional, and members shared how it made them feel. They shared feelings of sadness, difficulty in processing their own emotions and some felt the organisation hadn’t equipped them fully to explain why this decision had been made. We discussed some practical tips for HR professionals to consider before, during and after the process to make it go as smoothly as possible, centred around preparation, controlling the conversation with clarity of message and time for reflection and to unwind afterwards.
Local government and the wider public sector is becoming increasingly aware of the importance of a strong employer brand when attracting and retaining talent, particularly as we face a national skills shortage in certain areas and challenges in recruiting to senior roles. It’s so important to remember the role that outplacement support plays in this, it shows your organisation will look after it’s people from beginning to end. A robust outplacement strategy can make or break your employer brand.
At Starfish Search we’re proud to support so many people on their employment journeys, if you’d like to connect with us to discuss how we might help you we’d love to hear from you.
This webinar is available for a limited time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaGYChig0_I and we’re delighted to be teaming up with PPMA and City CV for our next webinar in October 2024 focusing on imposter syndrome in the workplace. Please follow us for all the latest news and events https://www.linkedin.com/company/starfish-search
It isn’t always easy to perform your best at interviews and so many of us can leave the experience feeling frustrated and slightly demotivated.
Join us to hear more from a range of industry experts who have coached clients from all sectors. This webinar will give you the time and space to review and refresh your own techniques and hear what works.
Find out how to prepare for those tricky questions and navigate those difficult moments enabling you
to approach your next interview with confidence.
Date: 20th June 2024
Time: 12:30 pm
Register: https://tinyurl.com/starfish-may
** New podcast series hosted by Starfish Search **
Look out for the first of our series of podcasts looking at our changing times in a year of fluctuation. Our podcasters will be debating different issues relating to change, social impact and public policy over the coming weeks. Tune in to hear some rich conversation and wise discussion from our panels of experts. The first in this series looks at our changing workforce, opportunity and inclusion, social mobility and how employers and managers could adapt.
For our first podcast we are delighted to welcome:
James Kirkup
Over 20 years in high-profile Westminster roles including Political Editor of the Daily Telegraph and Director of the Social Market Foundation. Extensive experience of thought leadership and advocacy work, with a particular focus on the relationship between business, politics and public policy. Continues to contribute regularly to national media outlets as a columnist at the Times and Spectator.
Jason Arthur
Jason is CEO of Mission 44, the foundation set up by Sir Lewis Hamilton. After starting his career as a teacher in East London, he has held leadership roles in the non-profit sector, including at Teach First, the #iwill campaign and Youth Futures Foundation. Jason also served as a senior local councillor in London. He holds a BA in Politics, Philosophy and Economics from the University of Oxford and a Masters in Education from the University of Cambridge.
Anthony Painter
Anthony is Director of Policy and Communications at the Chartered Management Institute. Previously he was Chief Research & Impact Officer at the RSA, leading their social change remit with his work on policy and social innovation awarded a Think Tank of the Year Award by Prospect Magazine. Among other roles he was previously the Vice Chair of Governors of Hackney Community College.
#watchthispace for more information.
On this edition of Starfish Sessions, Ben Manojlovic sat down with Maggie Kufeldt, a highly experienced leader in adult social care and housing and former head of paid service to reflect on her career. Maggie discusses in detail how she copes with the demands of challenging interim assignments and coping with the unexpected while on assignment.
Please do introduce yourself, who you are, recent career history?
I’m Maggie Kufeldt, I’ve worked in health and social care within local government for the last 30+ years, 25 of which were spent in Greater Manchester. My most recent permanent post was with Oldham Council as Executive Director for Health and Wellbeing. I left in 2018 to pursue a career as an interim leader. As an interim I’ve worked in some fabulous places including London Borough of Islington, London Borough of Camden, Royal Hospital Chelsea, Department of Health and Social Care during COVID, Liverpool City Council and Salford City Council.
Each of my assignments have been immensely varied and challenging and I’ve had the opportunity to test myself in different settings. These roles have given me so much confidence in myself and my abilities. I’ve met and worked with many different people – Chief Executives, Army Generals and Ministers of State. I have felt enormously privileged to do so and I hope I’ve added value to each place I’ve worked.
Can you tell us a bit more about the work you’re doing currently?
I’ve just finished a 15 month assignment with Salford City Council as Interim Executive Director for Adults and Health Partnerships, leading Adults Social Care, Housing, Welfare and Public Health Services. The role involved leading the development of a new directorate and working with the teams on developing and improving our services. I’m delighted to be staying on in Salford as Director of Housing Transformation for a further 6 months.
It’s unusual for me to stay so long in one place but I’ve thoroughly enjoyed my time in Salford. Salford is a city close to my heart and lots of my relatives live in the City and it’s been great to have the opportunity to work with Tom Stannard again and with the members in Salford who have great vision and ambition. As an interim you don’t always get to see the results of the work you start so it’s been fantastic to see this playing out now.
What led you to choose a career in social work?
I had a place to study English Literature at University of Liverpool but decided this was too far from home (even though I only lived on Manchester). I took a year off and my mum told me I had to work, by coincidence my sister’s friend had recently opened a care home and I went to work there at 19 years old. That was my first job in social care and from the moment I stepped through the door I absolutely loved it. It was a powerful experience for me and has led to a long career in social care, local government and the wider public sector.
In a few of your interim assignments you’ve been asked to stay on in a different capacity, how has that come about?
I’d say it’s a mix of luck, attitude and approach. I always take an active interest in the whole organisation, I have an open approach to my roles too and identify opportunities and improvements to support the whole organisation, not just in “my” service area. I build good relationships with everyone, not just those in my team. I like to get involved in corporate life and have a role in the corporate team and I think that’s led to me being asked to stay on in other areas which is something I’ve really enjoyed doing. I’d never really done housing before I became an interim and I’ve led on it in 3 different councils now! Don’t lose sight of why you were brought into the organisation in the first place though, there is a balance to this.
What led to your decision to become an interim manager?
I had only ever worked and lived in Greater Manchester and I wanted to test myself in a place where not everyone knew me and the working environment was less familiar. Looking back, I was probably in a bit of a rut and the idea of working away really excited me. It was a managed risk to see if I could work in a different environment and it’s paid off for me. I’ve expanded my network enormously, have had amazing opportunities and have learnt a vast amount and that’s something I really value.
What advice would you give to someone who’s considering that move themselves?
Speak to as many people and have as many conversations as you can. Talk to good recruitment specialists about your area of work and the types of opportunities that might be available for you. Talk to other interims about their experiences and the reality of it. Talk to other organisations in your area and talk to your existing network.
You also really need to think about the context of how you’d like to work, are you comfortable working and staying away from home? Are you comfortable without a stable income? Are you comfortable with time off between contracts? Make sure you go in with a full understanding of it.
You really need to consider the impact it has on your finances too. Staying away from home can be expensive, you don’t get paid while you’re on holiday and it’s important to plan for times when you’re not working or unable to work and that’s something I’ve had first-hand experience with.
Can you tell us a bit more about that?
I remember it so well. It started in January 2020, I went out for a run, came home to shower and found a lump in my right breast. At the time I was on an interim assignment with London Borough of Camden, I rang them straight away and let them know I wouldn’t be in work that week. After some tests with my GP I was diagnosed with breast cancer, it completely floored me. My treatment happened through Covid and lockdown which meant I had to shield throughout.
Camden were incredibly supportive, the Chief Executive Jenny Rowlands and Executive Director Martin Pratt both agreed that I would continue to work there and take time off around my treatment as needed. I was absolutely terrified I’d lose my assignment which was so important to me and for my mental health, I absolutely wanted to carry on working but I understood the organisation had their own needs and demands as well. I was really fortunate Camden were so flexible with me and I can’t tell you how supported I felt throughout this, even as an interim. I’ll always be grateful to Jenny and Martin for the compassion they showed me during such a difficult moment in my life.
Later on that year whilst still having treatment I went on to work for DHSC leading the Covid response in the West Midlands. It was tough and challenging but again the right thing for me as I like to be busy and feel like I’m making a difference. Clive Wright was another great support in this role.
This is my personal experience, but I completely recognise this will vary greatly from person to person – there’s no one size fits all approach. I do believe it’s important to be open and honest with your employers, manage their expectations about what time and energy you can commit. This applies to a health issue like I had but it could also be maternity leave, a bereavement or something else, I’ve learned that most people are supportive and will want to help you.
I spoke about finances before but it’s worth reiterating. As a permanent member of staff you’ll have access to benefits, sick leave and the support an organisation will provide and as an interim you don’t. Make sure you prepare for the difficult times while you’re working, set money aside and consider critical illness cover too.
Is there anything more agencies or employees could be doing to support interim managers facing their own health struggles?
For recruitment companies I’d say interim care is the most important thing. Stay in touch with people during the good times and the bad times, while they’re on assignment or between assignments. You want to feel as though that business has your back and there’s something really powerful about staying in touch.
My advice to employers would be you won’t get the most out of interims if you think of them and refer to them as “the interim”. Create an environment where interims can thrive, be included and feel part of the set up and team dynamic. You have a responsibility to them to, this works both ways. You may not be able to give them the same benefits as your permanent members of staff but you can afford them the same courtesy.
What’s been your career highlight?
I’d have to say my interim role at Royal Hospital Chelsea. Living and working in an esteemed national organisation that allowed me to work alongside the Chelsea pensioners daily had a real impact on me, it was fulfilling and amazingly good fun. It gave me an understanding of army life and military culture which I knew nothing about. You never stop learning as an interim!
At Starfish Search we change the world through Human Talent. Our Masterclass programme for 2024 is an opportunity for us to share our market insight, professional experience, and real time guidance on topics of current interest to our clients and also candidates seeking the next move in their executive and portfolio career.
Our Masterclass programme is delivered in partnership with City CV, a client-focused business that empowers job seekers and helps companies to protect their most important resource – their people.
17th May 12noon – Leading through tough Talks: Redundancy Resilience for HR Professionals
Held in partnership with PPMA, this webinar explores the nuanced dynamics of delivering tough news while preserving your wellbeing. Discover actionable insights and proven strategies to confidently lead through difficult conversations, cultivating empathy and trust within your team and organisation.
Link to follow
20th June 12:30 – Incredible Interviews
Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV this webinar looks at how your interview technique can benefit from a review and refresh. Building on interview tips and strategies from industry experts who have coached clients at all levels, from a range of sectors, learn more about how to prepare effectively for those tricky questions and approach your next interview with confidence.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_avTzenBgQCiyisIH54zQVg#/registration
(PPMA) 4th October 12noon – Embrace your Imposter
Held in partnership with PPMA this inspiring session addresses all forms of Imposter Syndrome. Its not just about self-doubt.Imposter syndrome can affect anyone of any gender, at any age and stage of their careers. It’s also been identified as a key symptom during perimenopause.
You’ll leave this inspiring session with an understanding of your own imposter, what type of imposter you are, and a toolkit to help you love your imposter as a friend not a foe.
Link to follow
17th October 1pm – Menopause for Leaders: Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV
According to the Guardian “almost a million women in the UK have left their jobs because of menopausal symptoms”. Yet, women aged 40-55 are often at the peak of their careers and have so much value, experience, and knowledge to give. It’s time that more companies put support structures in place for women and create a culture where everyone feels comfortable talking about the menopause.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_PWHxKBr5RoGgJonEEZTNlw
10th December 1pm – Elevate your NED LinkedIn: Held in partnership with Starfish and City CV
With over 1 billion users in 200 countries, LinkedIn is the #1 social media site for hiring professionals. An incredible 97% of head-hunters use LinkedIn as their primary candidate source, even more so for senior hires. However you may feel about social media, you cannot afford to neglect your LinkedIn profile.
Making it on to the shortlist for a top Non-Executive Director (NED) role is a demanding process. Your LinkedIn profile, along with your CV, will be one of the make-or-break components. In this Masterclass we will show you how to use your LinkedIn profile to refine your non-executive brand, elevate your gravitas, move up the rankings, prove your ROI, showcase your expertise, and expand your network in a competitive market.
Registration link: https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_DM5J5tIGRveNRwX_ksun9w
Delivering difficult news, like redundancies, is an inevitable part of the HR professional’s role. That’s why it’s crucial to empower HR leaders with the resilience and confidence required to navigate these challenging discussions with compassion and effectiveness.
Led by careers expert Victoria McLean, Founder & CEO of Hanover | City CV, you’ll explore the nuanced dynamics of delivering tough news while preserving your wellbeing. Discover actionable insights and proven strategies to confidently lead through difficult conversations, cultivating empathy and trust within your team and organisation.
During this interactive workshop, we’ll cover:
Understanding the psychological impact of delivering difficult news
Recognising and maintaining healthy boundaries in the workplace
Practical techniques for effective communication and empathy
Strategies for self-care and resilience amidst challenging situations
Walk away from this session with the tools and confidence to navigate tough talks with resilience and compassion, ensuring the well-being of both yourself and your team.
Register here – https://tinyurl.com/starfishmay
On our most recent edition of Starfish Sessions, Tim Farr spoke with Eileen Milner, an experienced non-executive who has worked across both the public and private sectors. Eileen spoke candidly about her career history, reflections on her transition from executive to non-executive and managing a busy portfolio.
Please do introduce yourself, who you are, recent career history and organisations you’ve worked with recently?
It’s actually quite hard to neatly summarise my career as I don’t have a linear career trajectory in the way that others might. I’ll say I’m a former Chief Executive who has worked across higher education, the commercial sector as well as in the public sector and I have always gravitated towards health and education.
an you tell us a bit more about the work you’re doing currently?
I’m working with several organisations in a non-executive capacity at the moment. I Chair the Bradford Children and Families Trust, an organisation I’ve worked with for two years now since before their inception and it is possibly one of the most challenging roles I’ve done.
I also Chair a Mental Health and Community Trust close to my home and my heart, Cambridge and Peterborough Foundation NHS Foundation Trust. During COVID I was very alive to the likely impacts the pandemic might have on the mental health and wellbeing of children and young people and I felt strongly about seeking to make a commitment and contribution to our mental health services.
Finally, I sit on the board at Ofqual. I have a passion for the transformative abilities of education and skills acquisition, I firmly believe that the way that education and skills interact can only serve to impact positively on productivity and greater equity in the economy and wider society. I’m really trying to bring focus onto apprenticeships and vocational education so we treat those with the same weight of importance as traditional qualifications like GCSEs and A Levels.
What advice would you give to someone who wants to transfer their skills to other sectors or do something a bit different in their career?
Unfortunately, there’s no magic bullet at all on this topic and it’s something I’m frequently asked about. I did work in different sectors myself and I’m a real champion for bringing people in from different backgrounds; I was very fortunate in my career that I had people who championed me as a candidate, and I’ve tried to repay this in terms of the way that I support people to traverse sectors. I urge those recruiting to positions to reflect rather less on where candidates come from and to be more willing to look at CVs which might be slightly different, to see what benefits different skillsets and backgrounds can bring. For candidates, you must be prepared to talk clearly about what your motivations are and to make sure you’re well prepared with a strong application -some of the public service recruitment processes can feel very alien to those whose careers have been in the commercial sector.
We’re often asked about making the move from executive to non-executive work, how did you secure your portfolio of work?
Personal connections and networks play an important role here. You can’t work for a long time without knowing people and building a good network and it is important to nurture and maintain that network. I’ve always felt a profound sense of duty that if something is really hard and needs doing that you should be willing to walk towards these roles. Someone once told me you can have a mindset that allows you to run towards bullets or a strong preference to run away from them and I’ve always tried to be willing to walk towards them. Some people think having a portfolio career is in some ways easier but it’s not, if you want a portfolio career you shouldn’t shy away from the hardest jobs – they need and deserve the best people.
Did you find the transition from executive to non-executive a challenge?
I did face some withdrawal symptoms initially but I was fortunate in my role with Bradford Children and Families Trust that it felt very much like being an executive Chair of a start-up. The realisation that there’s nothing in your direct gift that you can do or get done in isolation is a brilliant gift as a Chair, instead you are fully focused on bringing in the right people to move things along at pace. I looked forward to new people joining the organisation and populating the executive team to allow me to reposition my role into far more of non-executive chair space.
Another observation about moving into a portfolio career was that the “wrapper” that exists around you when working as an executive in an organisation disappears – I still miss this. As Chair you must realise the limitations and focus of your role because you aren’t there as Chief Executive or a Director. You must focus on the right things, create the conditions for the leadership team to succeed, for organisational purpose and ambition to be defined and delivered and you have to recalibrate your role constantly. You are there to make sure good governance and assurance is in place, you are driving improvements and focusing on relationships with key partners.
What advice would you give to someone thinking about moving into non-executive work themselves?
There are very practical things to do moving from an executive to non-executive career, you must work out what your new work/life balance looks like. I actually thought I might build some downtime into my working week but I’ve found that the ‘always on’ mentality of CEO doesn’t go away when you become a Chair. You will still feel acutely responsible for the success of an organisation, you will still be supporting people within it and managing relationships with stakeholders. There is an equal level of intensity but in a different way – it’s been a reality check and a reminder that public service roles remain hard and you must go in with eyes wide open.
I also think it’s important to view these roles as continuous learning experiences. We have all worked with some excellent role models and some less-than-good role models in our careers and it’s important to constantly learn from what you observe and experience in terms of how to operate effectively as a Chair or NED, the things you see that work well and the things that irk you while still remaining true to yourself.
How do you manage the balance of working with multiple organisations?
It’s a big challenge but also one of the great joys working in this way if you enjoy working in organisations with complexity and challenge. You need to have real mental agility to zoom out of one organisation and helicopter into another, it’s something I get real enjoyment out of though it may not always feel like it. Working in this way requires innate flexibility too, you can’t compartmentalise your day or your week. You can never mandate when an organisation is going to need you and you always need to give them time despite how much difficulty it might cause you. I was proud of some recent feedback from one of the Chief Executives I work with who said, “I always forget you work with other organisations”. Every organisation you work with should feel like they have your undivided attention and therein lies the juggling act.
What do you look for when recruiting for NEDs?
It might sound obvious but deep domain knowledge about a particular subject area and the ability for that candidate to be able to clearly demonstrate from their work experience that they can provide assurance, scrutiny and support to the Board and Executive team. I don’t necessarily look for people who have been NEDs before, I’m passionate about developing new NEDs, but we do need people to come in with expertise and know how to challenge effectively to make sure we ask the right questions. It’s important you’re able to demonstrate this as part of a formal interview process too which can be hard for people who haven’t grown up in that tradition of recruitment to effectively showcase your skills.
For senior leaders it can be difficult to know whether to step away from executive work into either non-executive or consultancy/project-based/advisory work, some people enjoy a mix of both. What led you to choosing a portfolio career?
I had recently come out of a difficult role and I could feel that my energy to do another CEX role had diminished slightly but my desire and passion for public service had not. I spoke with people in my network for advice and guidance about what to do next which led me to pursue a portfolio career and I’ve found doing several things that I felt passionately about allowed for a different type of contribution to the sectors I feel so strongly about.
What advice would you give to people who have been through similar hardships with work?
Anyone working at senior level will have faced challenges at some point in their career. You must have a strong core and belief system; I would ask myself what do I believe in? What is my duty? How can I always demonstrate that I will act with integrity and fulfil my duties? That’s what I’ve always drawn upon. My core has been tested throughout my career, both in non-executive and executive work and it’s something you must never take for granted – you have to work at it constantly to challenge and test yourself. Ask yourself honestly, am I ready for a particular role or assignment? And don’t be afraid to take soundings or advice from your network, from people you respect but also from those who might not necessarily think you’re the best thing since sliced bread!
Any advice you’d give your younger self?
Don’t get despondent. Lots of people approach me who think I’ve led a charmed career, and whilst I have been blessed and privileged in many ways, the reality is that I have had my challenges. I’ve been despondent at times about what to do next with my career and I remember advice my mother used to give me and I now give to my daughter – things will always work out for the best, you just don’t realise it in that moment.
I would also say stop apologising for the things I’ve not done before and focus on the things I’ve learned. As people we tend to focus on our deficits rather than the assets we bring.
What would you say is the single proudest moment of your career?
It’s very difficult to pick just one. I am extremely proud of the Children’s Trust in Bradford and the difference it’s making for children and young people in the area with the incredible staff who work in the organisation. As an executive, without doubt I would say that my greatest pride was in the entire staff of the ESFA and the way in which they responded to the challenges of the pandemic – they were simply exceptional.
How will you know when it’s the right time to retire?
I aspire to slowly phase myself out of work, that’s what the logical part of my brain tells me will happen. At the moment my desire to work with public services to solve problems remains undiminished and I am not ready to start the phasing out any time soon. It does demand an enormous amount of time and energy from you, so it is wise to consider how to retreat from this as there are so many other things in life to enjoy.